Newer mustang supercharger swap info

[bottledbird68]

Question for the ford guys here. I had a customer call me today who wants to swap an eaton M112 onto his 99 Cobra. I'm not looking for pro's and con's here. That's what he wants, that's what I'm sorting out. I have a fair idea of what's going to be required but I need some clarifying on the particulars. Where is a good source to purchase the supercharger? Can you find an intake for the motor he has (not sure what those came with and havn't gotten around to looking it up)? What boost can the stock bottom end safely handle? He was concerned about cooling system upgrades. Is that really neccesary? What's the safest most cost effective way to set up the fuel system? I remeber a month or two a go one of the mustang mags swapped in an 03 Cobra tank and pumps in a turbo swap they were doing. Is that the best route or is there a better way? Any answers you might have are appreciated, or, if anyone can point me to a link where such a swap has been shown it would be much appreciated. Josh, Brad, I know you guys must have something to say here :thumbsup:

[Feral]

I know nothing about mustangs so ignore me and I wont be offended.

Usually the cheapest AND most reliable way to do these kinds of things is by using factory parts (if they exist). That means steal everything from an '03 (or buy it at the dealership). Grab the FPR, fuel pump and injectors (I am guessing the '03's injectors are bigger so that means a reflash of the ECU or a chip or something). I imagine the '03 intake will bolt right on (same heads right??). Of course he will need to run a lot less boost since his CR will be higher ... 5psi is probably his max ... which is ok because that S/C is much more efficient there.

I dunno ... I'll let someone who knows fords better say something more helpful ... lol

[540Malibu]

keep in mind it is a ford and you will need everything from an 03 (dealer or boneyard) as ford makes everything vehicle specific. in the end after labor it would probably be cheaper for him to just buy an 03.

[Superskwrl]

Originally posted by 540Malibu
keep in mind it is a ford and you will need everything from an 03

in the end after labor it would probably be cheaper for him to just buy an 03.

:stupid: You can get alot of the parts off ebay though, the 03 tank is proably the best setup because those cars have a retunless fuel system and FP is controlled by the computer via pump voltage

Since you want to make $$ try and sell him on a centrifigal, if you need a vortech or paxton i could proably get you a really good deal on 1, the novi 1000 would be nice on that car, although again you run into the fuel issue's

Good Luck

[Superskwrl]

Aaand those motors are no where near as good as the 03's the 03 has manley rods and forged pistons and a beefy cast iron block all other cobra's have junk rod's, hyper pistons, aluminum block's both has steel cranks i believe, the 03 does for sure

[Feral]

Well it really depends on where the guy wants to go with it. I mean if he's just looking to get the blower on there and run maybe 4-6psi he's only going to be making 400-425HP ... I bet the stock block will hold at least that. Its mostly just a matter of fuel, chip, and intake ... which isn't bad at all. Harvest the fuel and intake from the '03 and get the ECU chipped for the bigger injectors and voila

[Superskwrl]

In a mustang the injectors are adjusted by different Mass Air Meter's i think the cobra has like a 39lb/hr injector and the N/A cobra a 24
The "take out" fuel tanks are about 800 shipped with pumps, whihc are twin 155's, which i think the N/A cobra has 1 155

[Mr Joshua]

Originally posted by bottledbird68
Question for the ford guys here. I had a customer call me today who wants to swap an eaton M112 onto his 99 Cobra. I'm not looking for pro's and con's here. That's what he wants, that's what I'm sorting out. I have a fair idea of what's going to be required but I need some clarifying on the particulars. Where is a good source to purchase the supercharger? Can you find an intake for the motor he has (not sure what those came with and havn't gotten around to looking it up)? What boost can the stock bottom end safely handle? He was concerned about cooling system upgrades. Is that really neccesary? What's the safest most cost effective way to set up the fuel system? I remeber a month or two a go one of the mustang mags swapped in an 03 Cobra tank and pumps in a turbo swap they were doing. Is that the best route or is there a better way? Any answers you might have are appreciated, or, if anyone can point me to a link where such a swap has been shown it would be much appreciated. Josh, Brad, I know you guys must have something to say here :thumbsup:
if he has to have an M112 or a roots style supercharger you’d be better off buying the kit from Kenne Bell, and charging him the install fee.. swapping the complete 03 intake tract from MAF to lower intake, intercooler, as well as possibly include a new timing chain cover, pulleys, etc.. is not cheap and not easy, unless you know someone with an 03 motor that fell off a truck somewhere..
it does depend on where he wants to go, with the right tune it should make him a very happy camper.. no mail order chips.. he'll have to spend some time at the dyno.. but with the 99 rotating assembly he’d be living on borrowed time thou, weak rods and pistons, the blocks fine to around 800+ hp.
if you’ve read the article on swapping in an 03 tank, pump, etc.. converting a return system to a returnless isn’t all fun and games.. I’d go with an inline aeromotive or walbro.
Probably cheaper and less of a hassle unless you can find the 03 components for cheap..
Also he’s running weaker half shafts and a T-45 compared to the 03’s beefed up half shafts and T-56..
I’d steer him towards kenne bells kit…
now if you want to find the parts.. www.karkraft.com and www.stangparts.com as well as www.fordpartsnetwork.com should get you started... if you still want to go that route..
i'll see if i can come up with a parts list needed for the 03 intake/blower swap..
~J
P.S. To make it simple, cost could range from $5500 - $6000 (to do it the low-budget way), to $6500+ (all Ford parts).
Compare this to $4500 - $5000 for a centrifical charger with all the (usually necessary) extras.
This cost assumes that you get a pretty good price on the Ford parts BTW.

[Paulie C.]

tell him hes gonna spend about as much to do it the right way as he would to trade the car in and buy a used 03 cobra !!!! best ford advice i can give. :bash:

[MikeOD]

Matt, can you weld aluminum? I have an M112 idea ;)

[H3llphyre]

Originally posted by Mike454SS
Matt, can you weld aluminum? I have an M112 idea ;)

Why does it have to be aluminum. Could always prototype it in steel...

[MikeOD]

The more I think about it...it doesn't even need to be welded.

[Brad S]

Matt, for the right price I'd be willing to sell my blower, cold air intake, and fuel system, and more, let me know.

In terms of the cobra taking it, I don't see why it wouldnt. People put blowers on 99-01 4v's all the time and they take the boost. Running 5 pounds of boost on it seems like a safe bet. The 03 has an intercooler mounted under the blower, the eaton runs very hot, but with low boost I dont see it being too much of an issue unless he's planning on road course abuse. I've seen people mount a 99-01 upper intake on the 03's, so I dont see why you couldnt mount the eaton on the 99-01. I'd say you get the eaton on there, figure out how to move the belt setup around to make room for the snout and and whatnot you'd be all set. Some of the piping might need cutting to make it all fit, but that shouldnt be too big a deal. Get it on the dyno, get the tuning all worked out, and you should be in business.

Like people have said, to make it iron clad he'd have to dish out a ton of money, but I dont see running low boost being that much of an issue.

[Mr Joshua]

the deal is, the $, for the cost of putting that 03 cobra setup on that block, he could buy a kenne bell kit, and have $ leftover for exhaust, etc.. or any one of numerous centri kits..
unless you plan on selling him 1/4 of the motor and basically the whole fuel system.. for dirt cheap.. and after the blower problems you had, i wouldn't touch the parts on your car with a 10' pole..
then toss in the whole ethecs... if it's going to cost matt $5k to convert it over to the 03 setup, and the kid goes out and happens to see a kit for alot less. then he's going to feel taken...
just some food for thought..
~J
P.S. Kenne Bell kit (http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/mustang-cobra46/mustangcobra46.htm) if he has to have a roots setup

[SickboySS]

i'm not a ford guy in any way what so ever, but i agree with the people who are saying to get a kenny bell kit...i think he just mentioned the eaton because its stock on another mustang so he thinks it should just bolt right on...

[Mr Joshua]

glad to be of help, if ya have any more Q's just ask.. :thumbsup:
~J

[Brad S]

Originally posted by Black99Cobra
the deal is, the $, for the cost of putting that 03 cobra setup on that block, he could buy a kenne bell kit, and have $ leftover for exhaust, etc.. or any one of numerous centri kits..
unless you plan on selling him 1/4 of the motor and basically the whole fuel system.. for dirt cheap.. and after the blower problems you had, i wouldn't touch the parts on your car with a 10' pole..
then toss in the whole ethecs... if it's going to cost matt $5k to convert it over to the 03 setup, and the kid goes out and happens to see a kit for alot less. then he's going to feel taken...
just some food for thought..
~J
P.S. Kenne Bell kit (http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/mustang-cobra46/mustangcobra46.htm) if he has to have a roots setup

Hows it going to cost over 5k? lol, fuel, blower, low boost, few more small things, but not 5k dude... Also not sure you're talking to me, but I've never had a problem with my car.

[Superskwrl]

Last time i checked KB doesn't have a setup for the 99/01 cobra's,and all of his stuff is @ least 3500 so its about the same as a cetrifugal price wise

[Brad S]

Point in fact, you can buy an eaton for under 600 bux on svtperformance, lets assume anoter 300 for everything from the filter back to the TB... seen that kinda price on svt performance.. you figure out a way to run the belts.. shouldnt be too hard.. and you do the tuning.. I can't see it being an issue... the only thing is it prob wont take much boost.

[Superskwrl]

what about the 03 specif computer, mass air meter, injectors, intercooler, 03 fuel tank, 03 alternator,03 alternator mount, lots of the stuff you'll have a hard time finding used and thats where it will get expensive

I still vote SC trim or Novi 1000

[Mr Joshua]

Originally posted by Brad S
Hows it going to cost over 5k? lol, fuel, blower, low boost, few more small things, but not 5k dude... Also not sure you're talking to me, but I've never had a problem with my car.
not only should you swap/upgrade all you'v mentioned...
but theres the timing cover, considering the accessory holes are different, between 99/01 and the 03 timing cover, as well as the altanator, coolant piping and reservoir, etc.. and various other components. it's not just your every day bolt on deal, a little more to it than just popping it on and having it work.. you'd want everything from the MAF all the way to the intercooler, as well as the timing cover, pulleys, different accessory items, belt, etc..
remind me again, was the rattling in your motor caused by the missing TB bolt(s), or the worn coupler in your compressor housing?
or did you forget that little eppisode?
as far as price, it was based on NEW/remanufactured parts.. not used..
~J

[Mr Joshua]

Originally posted by Superskwrl
what about the 03 specif computer, mass air meter, injectors, intercooler, 03 fuel tank, 03 alternator,03 alternator mount, lots of the stuff you'll have a hard time finding used and thats where it will get expensive

I still vote SC trim or Novi 1000
the 03 specific ECU isn't neccisary, an aftermarket chip would take care of that, or a MAFterburner (ability to change injector sizes, and MAF calibrations via a laptop).. i'v got one if anyone would like to check it out..
when doing an 03 swap you'd basically need what i specified above, everything from the MAF to the Intercooler, accessories, intercooler lines, tank, etc..
some things could possibly be fabricated or left out... pulleys, brackets, lines, etc..
~J

[Brad S]

Originally posted by Black99Cobra
not only should you swap/upgrade all you'v mentioned...
but theres the timing cover, considering the accessory holes are different, between 99/01 and the 03 timing cover, as well as the altanator, coolant piping and reservoir, etc.. and various other components. it's not just your every day bolt on deal, a little more to it than just popping it on and having it work.. you'd want everything from the MAF all the way to the intercooler, as well as the timing cover, pulleys, different accessory items, belt, etc..
remind me again, was the rattling in your motor caused by the missing TB bolt(s), or the worn coupler in your compressor housing?
or did you forget that little eppisode?
as far as price, it was based on NEW/remanufactured parts.. not used..
~J

No more difficult that bolting on a procharger to a 2003 cobra.. and thats not 5k...

And the rattle was the blower coupler.. but thats normal for an over spun eaton.

[Mr Joshua]

Originally posted by Brad S
No more difficult that bolting on a procharger to a 2003 cobra.. and thats not 5k...

And the rattle was the blower coupler.. but thats normal for an over spun eaton.
the reason why it's cheaper to bolt the Procharger on, is that for #1 it's aftermarket centri kit made for the 03..
#2 these are new Ford parts.. and they cost $$$
#3 these new ford parts arn't made for an 99-01
Overspun Eaton = bingo...
~J

[Brad S]

Originally posted by Black99Cobra
the reason why it's cheaper to bolt the Procharger on, is that for #1 it's aftermarket centri kit made for the 03..
#2 these are new Ford parts.. and they cost $$$
#3 these new ford parts arn't made for an 99-01
Overspun Eaton = bingo...
~J

and 4, it could be done for WAY under 5k dude. Not going to agruing with you all night, but if you go onto svtperformance and look in the wanted section, you can find EVERYTHING you need. If you can directly bolt parts from a 99-01 cobra to an 03, it will work both ways. Not saying the motor is built for it, but with low boost, maybe 5 pounds, I can't see it not working if you've got a nice tune. I agree a centri would make more sense but like people have said, this guy wants what he wants. And I'm thinking its safe to say you could get all the parts for under 2k, used.. New, def still not over 5k if you're talking to the right people.

[Mr Joshua]

ummm, i wouldn't doubt you could put on an 03 blower for 2k worth of used, unknown condition parts..
and everything you'v stated has already been covered..
thank you captain obvious..
~J

[bottledbird68]

Originally posted by Feral
Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit.

I dropped out of college after 3 years with a GPA of 1.2 and I'd be more than willing to go head to head with anyone in cambridge in any battle of wits. In fact I would love that kind of a challenge ... sitting in front of the computer all day writing inane programs in an inane corporate world has my brains drooling out of my ears. The only reason why I do it is to get out of debt otherwise I'd probably be running through the woods trying to kill cute animals with my hands and teeth (RAAWWRRR).

I spent 2 years at a special math and science high school full of incredibly brilliant people and one and all the most brilliant ones either didn't go to college or failed out or college. They were too smart for their own good ... and the system doesn't cater to these kinds. Many of the not-so-brilliant ones ended up going to Harvard and MIT and they got their degrees ... not because they were brilliant but because they were willing to do the lame busywork that determines your grades in college. I have never studied for a test in my life and I've consistently gotten A's in my hardest classes (and F's in my easiest ones) I just never did homework in my life either ... because it's dumb and meant for people that can't retain what they've been taught the first time.

College is bullshit ... less than 10% of the people in my department (including the managers and VP's) here have degrees that are relevant (Computer science) and less than 30% have degrees at all but there are plenty here earning 6 figures (I wish I was one of them).

I know Matt pretty well and I can tell you he is one smart dude ... in fact he is probably the sharpest mechanic I've ever met and just because he doesn't have letters after his name and just because he gets his hands dirty every and works his ass off instead of sitting behind a desk getting paid to do nothing of consequence (as is the case for both myself and Mr. Nabbs) doesn't make him stupid.

The other thing I can tell you about Matt is he is honest. He wont lie to anyone and he wont fuck anyone over. If he knows he doesn't have the answers to someone's question he won't feed them some bullshit line ... instead he will tell them he doesn't know now but he will. People appreciate and respect honesty.

Sure you go to some big "reputable" tuner and they aren't going to tell you they don't know something even if they do ... instead they are going to feed you some bullshit line just to keep you occupied.

Matt is better than that and he knows if he posts a question in a forum like these he now has instant access to the collected knowledge of everyone who reads this. He also knows some of us are full of shit while others maybe think of or know something he doesn't. I believe by doing this he is better servicing his customers by giving them access to not just his own expertise but the knowledge of many people ...

Fuck professionalism ... all that matters is authenticity. If Matt gives the guy the best and most reliable product possible in the end ... how can he possibly do anything more?? Exactly what I was thinking :thumbsup: I was just tired of typing novels so I didn't get that into detail :D

And yeah, I called Kenne Bell today and verified that they don't make a kit for the 99's. When I asked why they simply replied "clearance issues" So, I'm thinking centrifugal is most definitely the best route. Now that I am armed with facts it's time to make an in depth phone call. Thanks guys, well, most of you anyway :cool2:

[Mr Joshua]

Originally posted by H3llphyre
Exactly... I looked into prices of NEW M112's. Eaton wants $3000 for one. Something you guys neglected to mention for a major part. The intake manifold. Yuo need EVERYTHING from the intake manifold to the filter. Plus all the other shit... brackets, alternator, blah blah blah.
i think i covered it, everything from the MAF to the intercooler, etc.. :thumbsup:
kenne bell 99+ kit delayed till jan 04? wierd..
~J

[Brad S]

Originally posted by Black99Cobra
ummm, i wouldn't doubt you could put on an 03 blower for 2k worth of used, unknown condition parts..
and everything you'v stated has already been covered..
thank you captain obvious..
~J

Stop talking moron... Its not obvious you can get these parts for dirt cheap, and if this guy is on a budget it could be a plus for Matt to be aware the parts can be had off a 2003 car for next to nothing. So stop yapping like you know everything under the sun, its very very gay. I'm just trying to help out a friend. :lame:

And if you've taken the blower off the car before, like I have.. you'd know you dont NEED the intercooler. It would help though.. thats for sure. The eaton bolts up just like a 99-01 upper intake.

[H3llphyre]

Originally posted by Brad S
Stop talking moron... Its not obvious you can get these parts for dirt cheap, and if this guy is on a budget it could be a plus for Matt to be aware the parts can be had off a 2003 car for next to nothing. So stop yapping like you know everything under the sun, its very very gay. I'm just trying to help out a friend. :lame:

And if you've taken the blower off the car before, like I have.. you'd know you dont NEED the intercooler. It would help though.. thats for sure. The eaton bolts up just like a 99-01 upper intake.

I have not seen a cobra intake, but it looks to me on the lightning that the intercooler bolts to the intake manifold, and the eaton bolts to the intercooler. Just from the pics I have seen, it appears as such. Maybe I am wrong (good possibility). Is the cobra different?

[Mr Joshua]

Originally posted by Brad S
Stop talking moron... Its not obvious you can get these parts for dirt cheap, and if this guy is on a budget it could be a plus for Matt to be aware the parts can be had off a 2003 car for next to nothing. So stop yapping like you know everything under the sun, its very very gay. I'm just trying to help out a friend. :lame:

And if you've taken the blower off the car before, like I have.. you'd know you dont NEED the intercooler. It would help though.. thats for sure. The eaton bolts up just like a 99-01 upper intake.

I seriously want to take a crowbar to your skull, your a fucking idiot.. this is the last time I'm replying to this thread..
you can't drive, your not a mechanic, and on top of everything your a retard.. so SHUT THE FUCK UP...
I know mustangs.. I don't know chevys, or dodges, or mitsubishi's, etc....
the only cheap 03 cobra motor parts your going to find are USED motherfucker.. and I'd be willing to bet the customer would want NEW...
and nobody questioned weather or not the 03 lower intake would bolt up to the 99-01 heads... if you weren’t such a colossal asshat you'd have read that the swap has been done before..
break your 03 cobra and you’re an instant guru… take that worn coupler and shove it up your ass..
and wtf would you want to buy everything else and leave off the intercooler?
I’m done here..
~J
P.S. you can’t even post a picture in your SIG w/o fucking it up..

[Brad S]

Originally posted by H3llphyre
I have not seen a cobra intake, but it looks to me on the lightning that the intercooler bolts to the intake manifold, and the eaton bolts to the intercooler. Just from the pics I have seen, it appears as such. Maybe I am wrong (good possibility). Is the cobra different?

Well, I've seen a 99 upper intake bolted to the 03, so I'm assuming the eaton will fit the 99-01 just the same. From what I could tell the intercooler isnt even really bolted in, it just sits in the space between the eaton and lower intake. I could be wrong 100% but I've heard of it being done in the past, although I can't find the thread.

[H3llphyre]

Originally posted by Brad S
Well, I've seen a 99 upper intake bolted to the 03, so I'm assuming the eaton will fit the 99-01 just the same. From what I could tell the intercooler isnt even really bolted in, it just sits in the space between the eaton and lower intake. I could be wrong 100% but I've heard of it being done in the past, although I can't find the thread.

Well, the eaton and the intake are two seperate pieces. AFAIK the intake WILL bolt up to a 99 cobra. As was stated by Josh before. The portion I DON'T know is as I stated. On the lightning, the intercooler bolts to the intake.... then the eaton bolts to the plate around the intercooler. Post some pics up of an 03 without the eaton, or just a pic of the intercooler and I can tell you real quick.

[H3llphyre]

My bad... here is a pic of the lightning intercooler... side shot...

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/images/2999-5101-78198.jpg

The blower bolts on top of it, through the intercooler. So, without the intercooler, there would be a spacing issue. So, i suppose there is a way to bolt the eaton on without the intercooler, but it would lead to other challenges, again, caused by spacing concerns. Is this how the cobra works?


If the pic doesn't work, check out this page (http://www.f150online.com/galleries/albumview.cfm?num=5101)

[DevaROH]

not that i really know what i'm talking about here cause i dont own a new mustang never mind a cobra, but i would have to say that yes i think you could get away with out the intercooler cause as brad said it just sits in the middle only bolted in when the charger is bolted down. but there would be spacing issues, such as the charger not being up high enough, so the belt would have to be smaller, another pulley added, possibliy pullies hitting one another. shit like that. so if it is possible to swap it all i would do the intercooler anyway, besides why spend all the money to get all the shit you would need anyway and not dish out a little more cash to get the cooler.

but on a little side note, i wouldn't even bother with all this shit, just get something that you know will bolt right up cause the kit was made for the car. if the kid cant afford it right now, tell him to deal with the car being a little bit slow for now and save up some more money

[540Malibu]

with the higher compression of the 99 motor without the intercooler you will successfully cast you own powdered aluminum sparkplugs by accident.

[bottledbird68]

Originally posted by 95stang50
. if the kid cant afford it right now, tell him to deal with the car being a little bit slow for now and save up some more money Jimmy, he's not a kid. He's an older guy. But, for the record, I think I have him talked into a centrifugal. He just needs to decide what brand he likes and figure out if he wants to spend the money :thumbsup:

[bottledbird68]

Originally posted by 540Malibu
with the higher compression of the 99 motor without the intercooler you will successfully cast you own powdered aluminum sparkplugs by accident. OK, now that just made me laugh my ass off :lol: :D

[DevaROH]

Originally posted by bottledbird68
Jimmy, he's not a kid. He's an older guy. But, for the record, I think I have him talked into a centrifugal. He just needs to decide what brand he likes and figure out if he wants to spend the money :thumbsup: well excuuuuuuusssse me!! i did not realize this